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Chris Bell
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thats their internal QA testing process and one of the things i like about them too,

it is the time proven German approach all the way!

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On 5/6/2016 at 6:51 PM, Chris Bell said:

thats their internal QA testing process and one of the things i like about them too,

it is the time proven German approach all the way!

Come on Chris you dont need QA testing. I think you guys can test it perfectly plus iam sure there will be many loyal customers that will love to test and give feedbacks for free. 

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we do our own testing to some extent, it’s always nice to have someone have a second look,

I’ll tell you this... we are no less meticulous than they are, to this day they never sent anything back to repair once we submitted our work to them :)

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i thought id show you guys little more of Black Marble's Worldwide Native Vector Road Network,

(the data is most current, routable, and as accurate as of May 2, 2016!)

 

this is the same folder structure we all have inside Sim\Scenery folder,

this is where Sim's native vector data is located; subdivided into Sim logical smaller area grid,

 

1.jpg

 

2.jpg

 

here is the whole road network in TMFViewer Black Marble Native side by side vs P3D Native

(note we don't render any roads that do not have some sort of pavement while Native P3D does include dirt paths and such)

 

3-(BM).jpg

 

4-(P3D).jpg

 

i know its hard to tell from that far away what exactly is the difference, here is a close up of the same area;

lets see if you can guess which one is Black Marble and which is P3D :)

 

5-(BM).jpg

 

6-(P3D).jpg

 

Vector Data size
Vector.Data.jpg

 

Bridge Data size
Bridge.Data.jpg

 

Traffic Data size
Traffic.Data.jpg

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Hi,

 

SWEET!, I'm now in the process of starting from scratch... I'm reinstalling windows 7 and a nice new fresh/clean setup. I cannot wait for the release of BM, you'll never see me in the daylight hours again. 8-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

i don't think i mentioned this yet...

every vector road we rendered has traffic option enabled with it,

thats every piece of asphalt Worldwide will have active traffic gushing through!

you can be sure we will include our car lights library so you can see the moving ants trail from the sky at night :)

 

for those who aren't familiar here's a quick demo of our cars with lights library below

 

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This is looking fantastic, night is alive, finally!

 

I'm wondering whether you also have some, err... black magic to display the lights at a farther distance in P3D with normal settings (settings that won't kill the sim in daylight). Now a big problem with P3D is that cities do have some lighting but it's only appearing in blocks when the aircraft is nearing them, giving the impression the rest of the world is black and non-existent.

 

I'm not sure what is possible with their engine, for example giving the light objects a higher priority to be seen from farther away? In any case, that would be another huge improvement on top of all the wonders you've already shown.

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Hi Red,

you bet we have few trick up our sleeves to mitigate the bubble effect ;)

with that our road textures are visible from very from a very high alt by design,

these restriction you mentioned exist in P3D only; it is something the developer decided to set in code for time being,

with that we still get a rich night views anywhere you look,

 

below few top down view from a very high alt at night (this is just native data no added vector there yet!!!)

 

top.jpg

 

1.jpg

 

2.jpg

 

 

 

 

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That's great news, Chris, thanks for your explanation and pics!

I'm really looking forward to it :)

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Guest Guest of Inquiry

Hi Chris,

 

I like to use P3D (and previously FSX back through to the beginning) to fake like I fly the big iron.  I find that, as flight simulators like P3D and FSX mature (with contributions such as yours), we are running up against a brick wall of the 32-bit address space.  I have struggled magnificently in being able to fly something like an Aerosoft A320 or PMDG 737 or 777 in P3D without severely depleting the Virtual Address Space (VAS) to the point of starvation.

 

I've demo'd night environment, tried Orbx (they include lights too), and Ultimate Terrain's lights.  In all cases, the cost is too great when the purpose is to try to have a decent environment within which I can pretend I fly heavy iron.

 

My question is: how might I use this product, use something like the A320 or 737, and complete a flight? I ask specifically in reference to posts you've made in this thread on May 12 and June 5 where you show the increase in detail.  That your solution is global in nature is why I'm inquiring (I think it is the perfect level of detail for a high-altitude flier like myself).

 

Any insight is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

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Welcome to our forums Jeff,

Thanks you for asking; a very good questions I’d like to expand on,

First… all members of our Creative Design Team  are all firsthand simmers!

We are all aware of performance issues and current limitations imposed by 32bit platforms,

 

When we set out to build Black Marble night lighting system; before a single line of code was written, we first studied every exiting global system solution out there,

The purpose of this wasn’t to copy anyone’s work; rather to learn and study each implementation and pitfalls that followed; to make sure we build a robust system to fit everyone needs and not repeat any previous mistakes ,

 

We then designed Black Marble (Marvel :)) to be efficient, modular and give our end users 100% control; and when I say 100% controls I mean it!

I’ll go out on a limb and disclose that I literally had bit of negative (take this in proportion pls) feedback from two close friends I trust;

They were completely overwhelmed by the advance options and modularity; as well as what can be achieved with Black Marble controls to the point there were stumped initially,

Nothing to worry about; we don’t have plans on  giving up on any modularity or option we developed (we are actually adding more :)); but rather design a more intuitive and inviting GUI,

 

To touch bit more on how we achieve these bells and whistles I’ve mentioned through this thread,

First I’d like to emphasis a simple fact; every picture I posted on this thread so far doesn’t include vector data yet! It is strictly native Sim data we showed so far,

Black Marble Vector is an additional layer; by design Black Marble stands on its own without external data; utilizing only existing Sim data (that’s what been shown so far)

 

The few none Sim pics posted show the new vector data layer we are adding to Black Marble System; it is optional data and is not mandatory to use!

This new vector data replaces all Sim’s native road data with the latest data available worldwide! It is the same data used in most recent navigation system and it is highly accurate,

With that data added you can further enhance you night visuals with far more road data than ever before, with 1:1 real world fidelity,

 

Black Marble controls will allow the end user to activate 10-15 additional different road class; then set every element to his preference,

You can set the distance between light for every class; you can choose to turn a class on or off, turn traffic on or off, or any other related function for that matter,

Allowing one to set the distance between light posts is a big deal and allows the user to fit light density to his specific platform availability, as well as turning a road class on or off,

The statement above is true for all the road classes we will introduce into Black Marbles vector data,

 

One can set the size of the 3D bawls, color, and shape for each class individually, you can use simple light model or go for the full Volumetric light models we include,

The options are endless; they are there for you to control if you wish; or simply load one of the preset we will define for everyone in advance,

 

One of the biggest challenges as you stated is how do we manage all this added vector data we add to Sim,

Through a proprietary technology we developed; we are able to take extremely large amount of data and segment the data to match Sim native structural architecture,

Instead of creating a single scenery folder containing all the data; which is allot and what brings the Sim down VAS wise; we divide the data into very small chunks and place them in the same location Sim native tile is,

If you look back some pics I posted show Sim\Scenery folder where Sim divides the world into smaller tiles, 96 folders; then internally each folder breaks down to additional 64 smaller tiles (a total of 6144 individual tiles to be exact),

This is how we are able to take worldwide data and inject it to Sim without effecting performance what so ever, Sim doesn’t has to rear a large amount of data preflight, just tile it is on,

Furthermore; there is no actual scenery install folder for Black Marble; since it is integrated natively into sim itself :)

 

There’s allot more technical information I cannot disclose at the moment for obvious reasons; I think the above is technical enough without getting too technical or confusing,

I hope I was able to shade some light (pun intended :) ) on how we are able manage all this data we bring in, 

and the tools we bring in for you to control data distribution further internally,

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Guest RSVETTE12
1 hour ago, Guest Guest of Inquiry said:

 

Any insight is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff just loaded P3D 3.3 and had some stutters on older versions of P3D - now its smooth with NE's current product you might want to try that - looks amazing - Marble will be even better as far as performance plus what LM keeps improving so in my mind Marble will be a no brainer - FS Global of night lighting - cant wait - not to mention a one time purchase 

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1 hour ago, Chris Bell said:

Welcome to our forums Jeff,

Thanks you for asking; a very good questions I’d like to expand on,

First… all members of our Creative Design Team  are all firsthand simmers!

We are all aware of performance issues and current limitations imposed by 32bit platforms,

 

When we set out to build Black Marble night lighting system; before a single line of code was written, we first studied every exiting global system solution out there,

The purpose of this wasn’t to copy anyone’s work; rather to learn and study each implementation and pitfalls that followed; to make sure we build a robust system to fit everyone needs and not repeat any previous mistakes ,

 

We then designed Black Marble (Marvel :)) to be efficient, modular and give our end users 100% control; and when I say 100% controls I mean it!

I’ll go out on a limb and disclose that I literally had bit of negative (take this in proportion pls) feedback from two close friends I trust;

They were completely overwhelmed by the advance options and modularity; as well as what can be achieved with Black Marble controls to the point there were stumped initially,

Nothing to worry about; we don’t have plans on  giving up on any modularity or option we developed (we are actually adding more :)); but rather design a more intuitive and inviting GUI,

 

To touch bit more on how we achieve these bells and whistles I’ve mentioned through this thread,

First I’d like to emphasis a simple fact; every picture I posted on this thread so far doesn’t include vector data yet! It is strictly native Sim data we showed so far,

Black Marble Vector is an additional layer; by design Black Marble stands on its own without external data; utilizing only existing Sim data (that’s what been shown so far)

 

The few none Sim pics posted show the new vector data layer we are adding to Black Marble System; it is optional data and is not mandatory to use!

This new vector data replaces all Sim’s native road data with the latest data available worldwide! It is the same data used in most recent navigation system and it is highly accurate,

With that data added you can further enhance you night visuals with far more road data than ever before, with 1:1 real world fidelity,

 

Black Marble controls will allow the end user to activate 10-15 additional different road class; then set every element to his preference,

You can set the distance between light for every class; you can choose to turn a class on or off, turn traffic on or off, or any other related function for that matter,

Allowing one to set the distance between light posts is a big deal and allows the user to fit light density to his specific platform availability, as well as turning a road class on or off,

The statement above is true for all the road classes we will introduce into Black Marbles vector data,

 

One can set the size of the 3D bawls, color, and shape for each class individually, you can use simple light model or go for the full Volumetric light models we include,

The options are endless; they are there for you to control if you wish; or simply load one of the preset we will define for everyone in advance,

 

One of the biggest challenges as you stated is how do we manage all this added vector data we add to Sim,

Through a proprietary technology we developed; we are able to take extremely large amount of data and segment the data to match Sim native structural architecture,

Instead of creating a single scenery folder containing all the data; which is allot and what brings the Sim down VAS wise; we divide the data into very small chunks and place them in the same location Sim native tile is,

If you look back some pics I posted show Sim\Scenery folder where Sim divides the world into smaller tiles, 96 folders; then internally each folder breaks down to additional 64 smaller tiles (a total of 6144 individual tiles to be exact),

This is how we are able to take worldwide data and inject it to Sim without effecting performance what so ever, Sim doesn’t has to rear a large amount of data preflight, just tile it is on,

Furthermore; there is no actual scenery install folder for Black Marble; since it is integrated natively into sim itself :)

 

There’s allot more technical information I cannot disclose at the moment for obvious reasons; I think the above is technical enough without getting too technical or confusing,

I hope I was able to shade some light (pun intended :) ) on how we are able manage all this data we bring in, 

and the tools we bring in for you to control data distribution further internally,

 

Chris, for someone like me that currently has the global range of products from Orbx, FTX Global, Vector and OpenLC how will this integrate or can it even integrate with those products? I am assuming if this is vector based data only if one was too disable the roads within Vector but still keep stuff like railroads, streams, etc.. then it will work together yes? I think the night lights in Orbx Vector are tied to the roads as well so at night they won't conflict as far as the night lighting is concerned and same for the day road networks? This will also allow FTX Global which are just texture replacements as well as the OpenLC stuff which just places those aforementioned textures more realistically to stay active?

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Fair question I’m sure many are curious about,

Technically speaking I don’t see any conflict integrating our vector data with ORBX nor UTX,

We use independent data sets from each other that can be selectively turned on and off,

 

With that said We also don’t design our system with any 3rd party developer work in mind!

As long as their work comply with basic SDK guidelines; which all above reputable developers do!

no integration issue are expected,

 

as for vector data collaboration between applications... is something our application is definitely capable by design,

we are open to collaboration with 3rd party developers to improve (night) vector experience through our newly developed technology,

 

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Hi Chris amazing work there ! 

Just out of curiosity and complete disappointment of not being able to fly at night still, when do you think we can expect BM on our sim ?  

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Hi Roi,

believe around 3-4 weeks from now we will make Black Marble available for Beta testing,

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a quick word about the latest features we're adding to Black Marble,

if all goes as expected development will soon complete on new bridge level feature...

this how bridges will crisscross through connecting levels in Black Marble B|

 

Bridge-levels.jpg

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chris Bell said:

a quick word about the latest features we're adding to Black Marble,

if all goes as expected development will soon complete on new bridge level feature...

this how bridges will crisscross through connecting levels in Black Marble B|

 

Bridge-levels.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Wow...!

 

Looks like a spiders web...

Can you show the same spot at night Chris..?

 

regards,

Gerard

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im getting ready to show Black Marble vector roads, lights, and traffic,

as soon as its out of the oven i will show this feature in Sim as well :)

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25 minutes ago, Chris Bell said:

im getting ready to show Black Marble vector roads, lights, and traffic,

as soon as its out of the oven i will show this feature in Sim as well :)

lol dinner not ready Chris :D

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i cant help it; im watching the pot too :D

(only 50 processing hours left now)

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